Off The Floor Episode 014 Chris Lynam interviews Jason Hyland

CL: Alright! So I am Here with Jason Hyland. He is an author, he is a speaker and most importantly, he�s, he is a recovery coach and he was so� so fortunate that he had a chance to�, to join the show today on Off the Floor. Jason why don�t you introduce yourself and tell us�, tell us a little about what you got going on.

JH: Hi. Chris, thank you very much first off for having me. Yes, I am all the above I guess you could say, coming up on ten months into my personal recovery. Addicted to drugs and alcohol, opioids and, you know, once I asked for help�, the hardest thing to do is say, �Help me�, but once I did, you know, life has been just progressively getting better by the day and, and very, you know, blessed to have some opportunities such as this and it all comes to� it comes from writing.

I started writing when I was in a recovery program and led to my book, something like that, which I�m sure we�ll get into, and just, you know, the blessings that have come with my recovery right now is�, it�s really surreal, to be honest with you and I�m just going at it one day at a time and trying to spread the message as much as possible and my goal is coast to coast and you know, this is a great opportunity for that.

CL: Yeah� that is so fantastic, I mean you, you hit on something really important about like, asking for help, and, what do you think it is about that process, in like, why it is such a huge step in the recovery process for people and why is it such a big obstacle?

JH: Well, I asked that question to myself a lot and�, it was always the same answer. I didn�t want to be seen as weak, I didn�t want people to look down upon me and, I didn�t want to see myself as weak, like �Oh, I can't do this. I need help from someone else�, and so, once I� what I call�, I came out and said that, �I�m an alcoholic, I�m an addict�, which was, Christmas Eve this past year�, on social media, and the outpouring of support has been, something I would never have imagined, but more importantly, I�ve had individuals, every single day, multiple individuals, reach out to me saying, �Thank you�. Thanking me for having the courage to just be honest.

And it shows them that one; they are not alone. That there are people just like them facing the same, you know, obstacles that they have. And, after receiving so many of these�, messages, I decided to go back to each one and ask them, �Why? Why haven�t you done what you just did to me?� Meaning, you know, tell me� they�re telling me their story, pouring their heart out to me.

And I asked them, �Why haven�t you done this on a public platform?� Why hadn�t they gone to their loved ones, or seek help, and, every single person had the same answer. And it was because they were scared of being stigmatized forever, forever being seen as, as weak as, almost like a coward and it�s� it's very sad to� to hear that, and, I�ve had the opportunity since then to speak at forums on that exact subject matter.

The stigma that is an addict or an alcoholic, and, what it means to the person who, such as myself, you know, I�m forever now going to be, considered an addict and alcoholic. And that�s absolutely fine with me. I will take that to the grave, no problem, because, by me doing so, it�s allowing, like I said, others, the opportunity to realize, �Okay, I�m not alone�.

It�s okay, you can still live out the life you wanted, you can still be happy, and, there is help out there, there is support out there, you know, so what if you�re gonna be called this or that, but, unfortunately that is the reality of the situation, that is why people aren�t coming out, because they are just too scared and fearful of the opinions of others. It's really strictly based on, what others are gonna perceive of them, and�, and that�s too much for some people, and then, I totally get it, because it took me years and years and years to finally do it, to ask for help that is.

CL: Yeah, men, I mean, it�s like�, when you�re talking, I�m just thinking�, for some reason, I�m just thinking, if you�re a Red Sox fan, and you�re a die-hard Red Sox fan, and you�re willing to wear your Red Sox gear, to Yankee stadium, you know, then that says a lot about like, your commitment. And I just feel like, when you�re talking about that, that when you are willing to�, take in the good with the bad, that you�re still like, you know, you�re gonna bleed for your team, you know, it�s kind of like that same thing of just�, of just saying that that�s what you are and you�re gonna take the good and the bad with it� is that kind of�, would that be fair to say?

JH: Yeah, that�s a great analogy and baseball being my absolute passion and love in life I� I, I appreciate that [laughs]

CL: [laughs]

JH: And thankfully we�, thankfully the Red Sox didn�t get slapped and they won last night, speaking of, I�

CL: [Laughs]

JH: �, I can�, I totally can see that, and�, and, meaning, I accept who I am. I accept the alcoholic that I am, I accept the addict, and, acceptance is a very very big part of recovery, especially early on, because there�s so much that�s happening, so much being thrown at you, but in the end it�s just.., it�, once you accept it, you know, that�s the first step, it�s�, it�s admitting, okay. �I admit that this is who I am�

And then that opens up a lot more for you, and it makes you feel a lot more comfortable, because as I mentioned earlier, you realize, you�re not the only, you�re never alone in this process, and, once I really personally realized that, it made things a lot easier for me, it made feel, you know, comfortable, as much as I possibly could be comfortable in the matter, and, you know, just�, from that point on, it just thankfully has slowly but surely made it easier to come out and speak my truth, speak my honesty, and that�s helping others, in the meantime, so, by accepting, and admitting it, it�s really made things�, you know�, comfortable.

And it's hard to be comfortable when you�re in recovery. There�s no doubt about it. A lot of people, we fear the�, the uncomfortable, but, that�s where growth occurs. If we wanna grow as human beings, we gotta be, willing to be uncomfortable.

CL: Most definitely. I�ve been listening to�, I don�t know. Have you had a chance to listen to Dax Shepard�s podcast, The Armchair Expert?

JH: I�ve heard some of it. I�ve been�, there�s so many different things that have been brought to my attention in the past ten months. So I�m getting bits and pieces of�, so many, but I haven't gotten fully into all of his, but I�ve had bits and pieces.

CL: Yeah, he is�, so, he�s also�, he�s gone through recovery, and he talks about how, his vantage point; and he talks to, you know, his wife, its Kristen Bell, and�, and, they both say, that everybody should go through AA, just for, like, what it does for people, even if they�re not in recovery, because it�s doing so many things to�, to self-evaluate, to take accountability, to communicate, like your concerns and reach out for help, like what you�re talking about. So how�, do you�, would you agree with that?, with that standpoint? Like, do you feel like if anybody, even if someone wasn�t an addict, could really benefit from some of these steps that you�ve gone through?

JH: Absolutely! That is a great point you�, you mentioned there. And you hear it a lot in meetings, that, there�s twelve steps. And only one of the steps is alcohol mentioned, and that�s in the first one, or drugs for that matter. It�s in the first step. The rest of the steps is how you should live your life, regardless, you know, the tenth step is about being accountable for your actions; and, when you mess up, you know, stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility, and saying sorry to people if you hurt them, in the moment.

So, every single day, everyone should be living that step. You know, if you�, if you hurt someone, you should apologize. If you mess up with something, you should take accountability, take responsibility; and, in the twelfth step is, helping others as much as you can, spreading the message. And that personally, is what�s most important to me, because, I saw, how it helped me out. So, you know, this is, really given to me.

These people helped me, for no other reason, but they wanted to see someone get better; and, as I progressed, I certainly wanted to do the same, because I feel there�s no other reason why I was changed and really�, what I put myself through, than to spread the message of hope and inspiration�, because, there are so many people out there that are just so desperately in need, to hear just a sliver of encouragement, but they can hear that, where I was, and they�re like, �Oh, that�s�, I was there too, and look at what he�s doing� and so, I wanna spread the message as much as possible. So I�m living out the steps every single day, of my life, and everyone should, because, why wouldn�t you want someone to be better; and they�ll help others.

It doesn�t have to be just an addict or an alcoholic. You should like, you know, help anyone else, in general, and, you mentioned the�, self evaluation. Once you really get the opportunity to look within, and to see, who you are, what you�re made of, your�, the good and the bad, your flaws, your defects, everyone has them; and, again, that brings�, goes back to where, you�re not alone, you�re nothing special, you know, everyone�s gonna have these�, these traits, and, you know, they call it �The great I am�, and�, I hear that often in recovery and in meetings. You know what, I can think I am the�. all this�, �I�m the only one who went through this. I�m the only one who�s done this��blah blah blah blah blah� Well, in reality, you�re not.

CL: Mmhhh�

JH: There�s always someone out there who is�, who has it worse, who�s been through what you have�, but, I take that as, that�s a good thing, because, it shows me if they can recover and they can still go on and, you know, live, the life they wanted, then why can�t I. Its kind of, you know, related to, where someone, has done something, that everyone thought was impossible

CL: Mmhhh�

JH: Well, that means it can be done again. If something�s been done once, it can be done twice. And I really take that mentality into all my endeavors that I do, because, if I wanna live out the life I want, and I see that someone has done it for themselves, why can�t I? I always think that, �Why can�t I?�

CL: Oh, men. That�s great. Well, it sounds like it�s going really well so far and, you know, just, you know, your vantage point�, not only that, but then, you know, using creativity and then communicating on top of that, I�m sure that�s super charged your recovery, because not many people are willing to be so, out in the open and public about it. That�s why they call it �Alcoholics Anonymous�, and�, and you�re taking a very� [laughs]�, non-anonymous approach to it. I think that�s fantastic. So�, so tell me about like what�what�

JH: Thank you.

CL: Yeah, you�re welcome. What�, what was the driving force with the book? Were you already writing a lot? Like, how did that all come about?

JH: It's really crazy to say this, but, I�ve never written in my life, besides, you know, college papers, high school papers, so forth. I was a reader, I was a very�, into reading a lot. Once I graduated college and I was working in business. Business became my new sport. I played baseball in college, and, I have that competitive nature and so forth, in me, and, so business became my new sport, you know, because I could�, I was in charge of what I was gonna make. I was competing against myself, but others, and so forth.

So I started reading a lot, and it was personal development books, but then, one thing led to the other; and I found myself, you know, at the bottom. When I finally somehow some way, asked for help, and I, walked into a detox, I brought a notebook with me, and, very creative title, I titled it �Detox�� [laughs]

CL: [laughs]

JH: But that�, that notebook, turned into, what became 201 pages of my story. And it's not just about my story, I interviewed others that have been through�, that are in recovery, others that are successful entrepreneurs who have faced great adversity and overcome it. And, so, the writing just gradually came, as the day progressed. I realized, it was therapeutic for me, first and foremost. That's why I did it. That's why I started. You have all this time to yourself when you're in a detox, and, you're not really there to�, to make friends at the beginning, because you're so nervous, you�re so scared, so, at least I was; and I was keeping to myself by writing�, reading and writing, reading and writing. And I wrote one story�, originally I was just journaling each day, it would be like Day 1, I�d say what I did in the day, what I got out of it.

Day 2; so forth and so forth. And then I wrote a story. I don't know what came about writing it but it was a story about, what my morning used to be like, when I was, you know, a full blown addict. And, I wrote from�, the story was basically from 6.45 to 8.15 in the morning. And I wrote, just about that hour and a half, period. And, I showed it to someone, and they were thoroughly impressed, and couldn't believe how�, basically, they were that person in the story. They felt they were there, they could�, they could…, all their senses took over; and I even surprised myself, because I felt that too, like, �Wow. I'm back into where I used to be�

CL: Wow!

JH: � and slowly but surely I started writing little more stories like that. And I reached out to someone, a family friend, who�s written three bestsellers, and I just said, �Any suggestions?� And all he told me was, to keep writing [laughs]

And, I'm like, �Well I have over 10000 words already�, and, he goes, �When you get to 40, then we can talk�, and, so I did. And I just kept going and going. Initially�, the beauty of all this is, I had everything. Everything was handwritten. From the detox to the rehab to the recovery home I was in�, and, so I can look back now, and, I see the dates on it, and it's crazy to really look back�, when I sit back and, look at how this all transpired over the past, nine and a half months. It is�, it's incredible and I'm truly blessed that I �, some reason I started writing, and, you know, it brought these opportunities, such as being able to share my story with you and speak with you right now.

CL: Yeah, men, I love, like just note taking, but also, I love finding old notebooks. And I think it's kind of like what you're experiencing where you look back and you can kind of get this�, this inner view of like what was going through your mind during that time. I see this notebook, I still have it, and it's like one of my first notebooks, when I started teaching. And I'm, I'm�, I see who the speaker was, and I didn't realize at the time that this guy's like a legend right. And I�, and I'm like scribbling on the side of this notebook, and I'm looking at this. And I almost wanna go back in time and punch myself in the face, because I'm like, �You could have gotten so much more out of that meeting�

So�, so what was like the biggest take away when you look at, like that notebook and think, �That's so cool men�, that's like, �You should have that like, framed or something, but that is such a cool artifact. What's the�, what's your big take away when you look at like, your evolution, just on those physical pieces of paper.

JH: Well there's something very important from it, and, when I look back at the first couple of weeks; the first couple of months, it's a reminder of where I was, you know. I would look back�, when I was three months in, I'd look back to that first week, and no matter how down I may be that day, I can see where I was when I first started this process, see how bad I really was, and so I can always use it as, you know, a learning opportunity; and, you know, build my confidence, seeing that there�s progress no matter how bad I may feel today, it's always better than it was yesterday.

And I always keep that mentality. And I've spoken with multiple people in recovery who also journal, and they use their writing, in a similar fashion, where, they're having a bad day; they'll go look back at where they were a month ago, see what they wrote then. And it really, you know, brings to reality, the growth process, the growth of, �I'm getting better. I'm getting healthier. Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually�

And so, whenever I�m feeling down, all I have to do is go back to that original detox notebook, or any of the writings, because, I was using four notebooks at once. And I remember I wrote that in part of my book, so I�m thinking like that�, right now, I'm in the process of writing in four different notebooks and, it's because it was so helpful in my recovery. And a lot of people that, the professionals, so to speak, and the people with long term sobriety would tell me.

Don't focus so much on your writing, don't focus, you're gonna, you know, become addicted to that. And every single time I�d tell them, �Well, if I don't have my writing I'm not gonna be sober, and I'm not gonna be sober if I don�t have my writing. It would go hand in hand. So I couldn't have one without the other. And that's why it was so helpful for me personally, on my journey, in my recovery.

And I understand everyone's gonna get sober and clean their own way. That's what works for me. That's what is working for me, and, I'm going to continue to do that, because I see how much it's helped me in every aspect of life. First and foremost, it keeps me sober. That is number one. If I'm not sober, none of this is possible anyways.

CL: Right. How could you become addicted to writing, and how would that be a bad thing? That's crazy [laughs]� that they would say that. I mean, I think, only if you�re Kevin Spacey�s character in the movie �Seven�, where you�ve got volumes and volumes of really scary notebooks filled up [laughs]� I mean, what you're doing is so positive. I can't believe they could find a negative slang to that.

JH: You know�, that's a great movie by the way. Seven is one of my favorite movies of all time.

CL: Oh. Mine too.

JH: Phenomenal.

CL: Absolutely. Such a good movie.

JH: [laughs]� Yes sir. Well, there's a part of recovery where it's very�, often it happens where you'll become addicted to something else. Whether it�s work, the gym or writing, reading, so forth, but it's productive, like you said, it's very productive measures that are for me�, again, it was therapy, it was therapeutic. That's how I put in my thoughts and, things that I've been through on paper, things that I've never shelled out to any single human being out there, that have always been suppressed inside.

By putting that on paper, it's helping me. So, that's why it's very�, you can't just take what everyone says and go by it. Meaning, if my counselor says, �You have to do, this, this, and this; that�s the only way, or AA says, �This is the only way�, no, I took bits and pieces of everything, because again, there's no right way, to get clean and sober.

That's not how it works. Everyone's gonna be different, and for me, it was writing. So I agree with you that, it was productive, it is productive, and I know now that it's helping hundreds of thousands of people; and, nothing's gonna stop me from continuing doing what I'm doing because, yes it's helping me, but it's helping others, and that�s all I�m inspired to do right now.

CL: Wow! That�s so cool. Hey, so wait, let's talk baseball. So tell me about�, about how you got into it, like, were you like playing T-ball all the way up through everything and�, and how did you get�, get into it and then like go all the way to college like tell me a little bit about that�

JH: Yeah. Baseball, like I said, my true love, and my�, sorry to my girlfriend, she knows that� [laughs]

CL: [laughs]

JH: � that baseball has always been number one. My brother was a�, a big high school superstar, he�s 10 years older than me, and, so I just watched him, learnt from him; and then, I progressed, and progressed, to the point where I was very fortunate. I got scholarship offers from Florida to California. I�, after high school, I went to an all-boys Catholic school here in�, just north of Boston, and, hold all the school records still, which is, you know, a proud moment in my glory days.

CL: Yeah.

JH: But it gave me opportunity. It gave me the opportunity to be able to choose any college pretty much of my�, my liking, and I went to school in Tampa Florida, was blessed to be able to go to the College World Series. We lost in the national champion�, lost in the national championship game. Yeah. And, I was named MVP of the College World Series after my sophomore year, and�

CL: Wooow!

JH: That was�, I could see the light, I could see my dream was coming to fruition, that�, playing Major League Baseball has been my dream since�, since I can remember. Since playing right in front of my house, and, unfortunately, what transpired in the next six months was�, became the�, the ongoing story for me is�, drugs and alcohol took over, and I got kicked off the team. Somehow, some way I got another opportunity to a school up in your area, Chico State up in Northern California.

CL: Oh nice.

JH: Yeah. So I went there my last two years my junior and senior year, went to two more college World Series, but by that point, you know, my demons had pretty much control over me, and the baseball was thrown out�, thrown out the door. I did somehow, some way, get in�, I moved back to Massachusetts in 2010 and I tried out for a tryout after working at a baseball facility. A former teammate of mine, and I started training together, and he was playing at the time, he was in triple A. And he's like, you know, �I should set you up with my agent. You look like you haven�t missed a beat�, because I didn't play for almost, six years. I had two spine surgeries right after college.

CL: Whoa!

JH: And, that one, it wouldn't have mattered anyways, since again, my demons had control of me at that point, but, you know, I started hitting with him often while in between when we were doing lessons. We both trained kids at the facility we were at. Long story short, I went to the tryout, I got signed, I played two years of independent ball in New Mexico and Texas. When I was 27 and 28 years old, which is very late for baseball standards�, but you know what, I got to say I did it.

CL: Yeah.

JH: It�s not like I made much money, but, my life�, it was�, everything was taken care of, and it was just�, it was great to experience that. It was one of the best blessings I've had�, and to this day, baseball still is absolutely number one to me. I've coached high school for three years after I finished playing. And, you know, it will always be a big part of me.

CL: Ah men. That's great. Yeah, I have a similar�, I mean, not to the same degree, but, yeah, I had a�, I had a bad basketball injury�, was like, that was my number one, and�, and so I, had a misdiagnosed injury that was�, they said my wrist was sprained, it was really broken, and so I was trying to play through this broken wrist, and, I got kicked off the team because I got in this shouting match with my coach, and�, then they let me back on the team, but I sat the bench, and it was just this, you know, this nightmare whirlwind, but it was the same thing, like I hit�, when I lost that identity, I felt like�, I felt like that was it.

Like I felt like, my�, because I'm like the tallest person in like, a couple generations of my family, so I felt like it was all preordained for me to play basketball, right. And then when that came to a grinding halt, it was like, �What do I do now? Like, why was I given these gifts? And then now, what I�m I gonna use them for?� And, then that was like the set up for me finding ballroom dancing of all things. The thing that I used to make fun of my dad for doing, and then suddenly I fall in love with it. So [laughs]

JH: [laughs] Of course. It comes full circle how that happens.

CL: It's crazy. It's crazy. So then, like, how did you feel like�, so do you feel like maybe this whole time, like the identity that you've been meant to have, is to be the person that you are right now? Like, do you feel like the baseball was really just like, a set up for that? Like, talk about that.

JH: I'm glad you�ve mentioned that, because as you were just sharing your story�, which, by the way, I did my homework on you last night, and I saw the basketball aspect, I was like, �Okay, we got an athlete� This is going to be, an easy conversation for us [laughs]

CL: Yeah, yeah, yeah [laughs]

JH: Well, it took me a long time to accept that, baseball wasn't supposed to be, wasn't meant to be. And, one thing I hear often, in meetings, AA meetings, is the term �grateful alcoholic� And I can never understand it, especially in the first few months, I was like, �How in the world can I ever be grateful for the very thing that took away, everything I ever loved in life. How can I be grateful for it� And then, one day�, I lived in a recovery home for six months, and I graduated February 23rd this�, this year; and it was about a month before I was graduating, and�, on Saturdays, we had breakfast at a church.

It would be the�, like it was a community, gathering, and, to feed the less fortunate, and, my home was right across the street from it; and we would go and have breakfast there, and, the members who organized it, they found out about my book through the grapevine, and they offered to, host an event, and cater everything; and, it just hit me, as I was walking back to my house, it hit me, I'm like, �Wow, like, why are these�, all these opportunities�, why are these blessings happening to me? All I'm doing is staying sober�, and that's, when I said, for the first time, �I'm a grateful alcoholic. I'm grateful because I'm getting these opportunities to help others so that they are not in the situation I put myself in, so that they don't have to live in the perils of addiction like I did�.

And, from that point on, since then, it's been much clearer each and every day, with each passing day that, I wasn't supposed to be a Major League Baseball player, I wasn't supposed to be everything that I always said I would�, I was putting all this pressure on to be. From literally since I was like 10 years old, it was, �Jason�s gonna play professional baseball�. From my family, my friends, the community. And it kept growing, like that's what I was supposed to do.

And, you know what, that's what I wanted to do. I was�, there's no doubt about it. That still�, I wish that dream came to fruition, but it didn't, and it gave me this opportunity, and this opportunity is so much bigger than my personal�, what my dream was, my personal recovery, just even the book itself. It's so much bigger than that, because there's so many people out there that need to hear�, stories like this.

They need to hear that people, even though, you know, they didn't live out the way they thought they were. Well, there's no�, plan A isn't always the way it's going to be. There are so many other different ventures that can happen for you. So, baseball is a huge part of me, and like I said, forever will be, because it brought me to where I am now. And it gave me the ability to one�, the confidence I have, and who I am, and knowing where I can go, if I really put forth the effort.

Two, it helps in regards to the book, the notoriety I'm getting in my area, in the, North Shore, where I'm at, Massachusetts. It's given me opportunities, because of who I was, aka, The Great Baseball Player. So then I get the opportunity to have�, being on a TV show, being on, you know, multiple newspaper articles written about me, because of the fact of who I was. So the baseball had given me that opportunity to really give me the platform, to do what I love now, and that is to, share my story to help, to hope, of a hope and inspiration.

So it came full circle, just like I�, I mentioned with you, basketball all the way to what you used to, you know, laud your dad for, it�s the same thing that has pretty much happened for me. Baseball will always be a part of me, and it has brought me to where I am now, and I couldn't be, you know, happier than that.

And, it�s, again, I could say it's unfortunate that I didn�t live out those dreams, but I'm living out a totally different dream, and it's so much more worth my while.

CL: Oh, men. That�s so great. Yeah, I just�, it's kind of like, that, you know, all of those moments where something great happens because of something bad that happens, and that that bad thing, could be the catalyst. Like, if your house burned down, but then in the process you ended up discovering that your house was built on top of a gold mine, or something, and you never would have found the gold mine if the house hadn't burned down, and�, it's so cool to hear how you've taken these�, the setbacks, and then set up something even more fulfilling and, not to mention like the lifespan for you as an author and a speaker goes well beyond like that lifespan�, that such a limited lifespan of an athlete.

And�, and I know that there's a lot of athletes out there that really struggle with that. That they�, that that window is super short, you know. So now, is there�, do you have like a second book in the works? Are you�? How is everything going so far? Like you said, you've gotten a chance to be on TV, and�, what's been like your biggest, maybe one of your biggest highlights so far, since the book has come out?

JH: Well, June 1st is the actual release date when it�, it will be on book shelves, and it�s taken off on Pre-order�, on Amazon, and that date is, something that�, yeah, that�s like a moment I�, I can�t wait to happen. I spent all these thousands of hours of�, of work I put into it�, definitely starting to finally come into fruition, and I�m seeing it there.

But�, when I put my book�, let me back track. I wrote the book, I edited the book, I designed the cover, I published the book. And, I did all that not for, any purpose of, �Oh. Look at what I can do, but to show that, anything is absolutely possible, no matter where we are in life, no matter how down we are, we can still do whatever we want, you know, my mother always, always, always, preached to me, �You can do anything you put your mind to�, and that, you know, other people, we hear that all the time.

Well I�, I put that to the test, and it came�, it�s true. And, so, that�s why I kept going at things. Did I ask for help? Yeah, of course. I needed help with certain avenues, because this is all brand new to me. Once I put it on Amazon for pre-order, within two weeks, it became number one National Best Seller on Kindle and Paperback, categories of �Alcoholism and Recovery� That definitely was the highlight.

CL: Wow! Congratulations.

JH: Thank you very much. And, that was the highlight so far, because, back in November, I sent an e-mail to myself saying, �You will become a Bestselling author�

CL: Whoa!

JH: I forwarded that e-mail to my mother as well. And, I have them, obviously, I have these e-mails saved. I said this was gonna happen seven months ago, and, it just further reiterates; we want something bad enough, we can have it. It's up to us, just to put into the work, to grind and grind and grind, to make it happen, to make it come to, you know, fruition.

And, you mentioned about, making�, setting myself up for the future, from a setback. A quote that I�, I don't know if I made this up or not, but, I don't know�, I don�t remember hearing it anywhere, but, �Failure is the gateway to opportunity�. So many people�, you know, think�, I don't�, I think I heard it somewhere, I don�t know, but, I�m gonna claim it until someone says otherwise [laughs]

CL: There you go [laughs]

JH: And, it's so true, because everyone, no matter what, is gonna deal with failure, it�s part of life. It�s just how we react, how we respond, to those set of failures, that are gonna determine where we're going. And I decided that, you know what, �Nothing I can do about the failures I've had. I'm just gonna put everything I can into moving forward into bettering my life, which in turn hopefully will better others�

And that's what's happened. So, the highlight personally on a selfish level, has been, I wrote a bestselling book, you know, I've never wrote more than a couple of page paper, for, like I said in college, and I can say that I did that, but more so, it's the fact that, it's proof that, no matter who we are, no matter where we are, anything is possible. Anything is achievable. And I'm seeing it happen firsthand, and from that, others are getting hope and inspiration. Like I mentioned, people reaching out every single day. It's just, it's such a blessing.

And just today, before I spoke�, this call, I received a Facebook message from a traumatic brain injury organization, non-profit, up in New Hampshire, that, asked if I could, come speak to them, speak to their clients, because a lot of them have addiction problems; and, how did that happen?

I'm just someone who is, you know, 10 months or so, sober and clean, just sharing my truth. But by doing that, these are the types of opportunities and blessings that are occurring. And it shows me that, it's so much bigger than me, so I'm�, all that is the biggest highlight. The fact that, my words, are helping others get through, and to see that there is hope.

CL: Ah men, that�s so cool. Well, that�s�, that is, the perfect segue. I�m gonna ask you some rapid fire questions.

First one, your absolute go to, what is�, what is your food lineup when you're going to, a sporting event, like what's your�, what's your go to�, like what should everybody try if they go see a game, out in Massachusetts?

JH: I would say Fenway Franks, but actually, it's the sausages that they sell outside at the vendors. My mother and I, we actually just went to a game, last weekend, and, we take the train and, it�s about a half hour train from where we live; and, she's always like, �Oh, I can't wait to get that sausage. It�s my cheap day. I�m gonna get that sausage�, and, no doubt about it. Sausage with the onions and peppers, from the vendors outside of Fenway Park. Hands down.

CL: Okay. So now, we have to talk about�, the movie's been out for a while, but, we have to talk about, what is your take, on the�., on the Boston area take, on a movie like �Good Will Hunting� and specifically Matt Damon and Ben Affleck?

JH: [Laughs]

CL: Is it a feel good story? Are you�, are you annoyed by them? Like, how do you feel as a resident of Massachusetts, seeing what they created?

JH: [laughs] Absolutely. All my favorite movies are Boston movies. When I lived out in California, my nickname was �Boston J�. I will bleed Boston till the day I die, and, regards to Damon, Affleck, and the Wahlbergs; how can you not respect what they've done? They've all came pretty much from nothing, and made themselves into who they are. And that's the type of people that I look up to, and I admire, and I wanna emulate, because they're living proof that, no matter what, you can live the life you want.

CL: So cool. Alright. Give me your very favorite, like your all-time best sporting event moment. Something that you witnessed, you know, or, maybe you got an autograph, or something�, like what's your all-time, favorite, like live sporting event moment?

JH: Without a doubt, game 6 of the 2013 World Series at Fenway Park, when the Red Sox clinched the title for the first time in over 100 years. I was there with my mother, my mother and I are super close, she�s my best friend in this world; and, I got to experience that with her, hands down, that�s�, the best of my life, best day of my life, best time of my life, best moment, best everything that moment; sharing with her. Watching the Red Sox win the World Series at home.

CL: Men, that is so cool. How about�, let's see�, okay, you can go back, and you can redo one moment in high school, but as, a really great dancer. What's your moment and, how would you use that skill for good? [laughs]

JH: [laughs] I remember reading, or hearing about this, on one of your previous podcasts, and I thought about�, it just hit me. At freshman year of high school, I went to an all-boys Catholic school. So, our dances were kind of a big deal, because you would have, girls coming from all different towns around, and I remember in particular, my freshman year, there�s a picture in the year book, of me dancing, totally having no clue, you could tell, of what I was doing,

CL: [laughs]

JH: But I would�, that moment, is what comes to mind, and I would just, you know, maybe have had, a little more, skills with the feet and not� [laughs] �, no�, I think back in the picture though, it looks like I�, the person I was dancing with, she wasn�t not impressed, but�[laughs]

CL: [laughs]

JH: That's what I would�, I would go back to that moment and�, and see if I could up my game a little bit I guess, fresh man year.

CL: Nice! Men, that�, I mean, usually, like, I know in California, like in San Jose, there was an all-boys school, and, then they would have like a�, an all-girls school, and then they would get together for dances, but you had them like bused in from other neighboring schools. You guys had like a�, big selection. That sounds like a great set up.

JH: [laughs] you know, a lot of people would be like, �Oh, you went to an all-boys school. How could you do it?� It was the best thing that could have ever happened to me�

CL: [laughs]

JH: � and, in more ways than one. Very, very, blessed and grateful that I went to that school though, it was�, I'm so happy, and I'm a big part of the community still to this day. I got inducted into the Hall of Fame there a couple years ago, and, it's one of my most proud moments to be honest, because that school means so much to me.

CL: Men, that is so cool. Alright. So�, okay, so final thought now. So, if you had to kind of think about what, you know, your journey, and what your road is�, has taught you, and some of the things that you've talked about in the book. And now, if you had to�, if you had to kind of like, take this�, take the message, and then�, and then, kind of give it like one, like, final, kind of like segment.

Like, what would be like the message for people, doesn't have to be just dancers, but people in business, people, you know, that aren't in recovery, might be in recovery, but what�s�, what's your final thought? Like, how would you wanna summarize this interview, and what's the message that you wanna share.

JH: Well, what immediately comes to mind is, a scene from �Pursuit of Happiness�, and, being out, in San Francisco, where you are. I think about the moment Will Smith is speaking to his son, when they're playing basketball, and, he tells his son that, �No matter what, don't let anyone tell you, you can't. Not even me�. And, that's what I look at, with life. Now that I have this, you know, this�, second chance and this second opportunity, I don't care who you are, whether you are the closest person in the world to me, or, you know, someone who is just trying to drag me down no matter what; I'm gonna go ahead and go after what I want, and know that I can achieve it, no matter what.

It doesn't matter the circumstances, it doesn't matter how far down I am, if I want something, I can still have it; it's just about how much I�m I willing to put in, to go ahead and get it. And that, anything is possible. Against all odds, I can use every clich�, that there is, but it's true. I'm living proof of it, and I�, every single day, I tell myself, and I look back, and I say, �Look where I was, and look where you are now. All from believing in yourself�, and, you know, the more you grow, the more success you garner, the more people are gonna try to drag you down. And now that means that, you're doing better and better and better, because, �That bus is just getting bigger? Great!�

That means I'm getting�, you know, getting the�, message out to more people. And, you know, I'm having opportunities like this, when I can speak with you across the country. This is exactly what I envisioned 6, 7, 8 months ago, and, it's all come to fruition, because I believed in myself, and I didn't listen to any of the naysayers, because they're always going to be there. So, if you are�, if you are that person, stop thinking like that, no matter what.

CL: Oh men. Awesome! So now, how can people…, so�, so the book is available for pre-order right now. And you said, June 1st, it drops?

JH: Yes sir. Yes sir.

CL: Alright. And then, how can people�

JH: It's on Amazon right now. The title again, is, �Stop thinking like that�. My website is jason-hyland.com. Right when you�, pull up my site, there'll be a pop up to go ahead and purchase the book or pre-order it.

And if you pre-order it on Kindle, it will be automatically available June 1st. If you get Paperback, it'll be sent out the last week of May, so you should be getting it around the June 1st date. Or you can as well go into your local Barnes Noble, local bookstore, whatever the case may be�, and I�, it's not a book, just for people in recovery, or addicts and alcoholics. It's a book for everyone, because, as I mentioned, at the beginning, every single person deals with adversity.

Doesn�t matter who we are, where we live, how rich, how poor; it does not matter. We all deal with adversity in life. It's just how we�, how we go ahead and respond to it that's gonna, you know, travel us in the direction we're supposed to go. So it's for every single person.

Yes, a lot of it has to do with my personal story in recovering, and what my addictions and my demons took away from me. But, as multiple people who've already read it, they say is; it's not your typical, you know, sad story. Every single chapter you leave, you're inspired, motivated, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna cry too, but, that's how we get to where we want to go. We have to go through the pain to get through the ultimate success that we want, to the happiness that we're trying to find and strive for.

CL: Oh men. That's so great. That is�, such a.., huge milestone. It's incredible to think, that, you know, you're only�, you�re less than a year from, when first started the program, and to think about where you are now, and that e-mail that you sent to yourself, men!

I mean, all the�, all the lights are pointing towards, you know, this really is, like, what you�re designed to do men, and I couldn't be happier for you; and I'm really happy that you're able to hop on the show, and we can talk about it, and get to know you a little better men. I think that you got such a great story�

JH: I appreciate that. You�re getting me a little emotional over here, because, you know, when I think back to where I was a year ago, it is surreal, and it is such a blessing, and I appreciate this opportunity Chris, I really do, and, I'm looking forward to, you know, getting to know more of you as I�m moving forward, and hopefully be out there, because I want�, like I said, I'm going coast to coast. I don't care whatever it takes.

CL: Yeah. Hey, well, you know, when�, when you do come out�, actually my�, all my dad�s side of the family is from New Bedford, but I've never been to Massachusetts in my life [laughs]

JH: We played them in high school.

CL: Oh yeah, crazy. Yeah. So, they all moved. But then, you know, everybody from Boston, they all move down to Florida, to�, you know, at some point�, and�, but a lot of them move to California, you know [laughs]

JH: [laughs]

CL: So, I don't know if there's any family left over there, but I know I got to get out there at some point and, then we�ll have to hook up when�, whenever. If you're ever out this way we�ll�, we�ll have to grab a coffee, or something.

JH: Certainly, and if you come here, then we'll have to go grab, like I said, the sausages outside of Fenway, and go catch a game.

CL: Oh my God. That would be�, that would�, I would love that. Are you kidding me, Oh�